Transmission problem...I think

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Transmission problem...I think

Postby Dswan » Sun Jul 15, 2012 12:21 am

Hey so I tried to make it down to one of your Wednesday night things but my newly acquired scooted failed to make it. What I know about it. It's a small frame Vespa 125 primavera. It was purchased from ptown a few years ago by a friend. He rode it daily for a year or so, had ptown do a 12volt conversion for it. I got it for a good deal. Rode it around the block and noticed that second gear seamed to pop out most of the time. Anyways tried to ride it down town, got a few miles from home and some how it is stuck in 4th. Being stuck in 4th I can't really ride it. I really really want to. My question(s) is where does a person go to get something like this looked at. A shop, an awesome community, ... Or
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Re: Transmission problem...I think

Postby joe » Sun Jul 15, 2012 9:38 am

you won't find a shop in town to offer much help. we all wrench on our own scoots and help others in need when possible. sounds like a cable issue with your gear selector. sometimes new cables loosen up after a few miles of riding, or perhaps they were no tightened enough. Possibly just a matter of adjusting your cables and retightening them. pretty simple.

what part of town are you in?
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Re: Transmission problem...I think

Postby spiderwebb » Sun Jul 15, 2012 10:45 am

I'll take a look when I have a moment...
PM me your home phone # since that is how we keep scammers from getting our #'s

Q's
- is the shifter tube loose = is there play up at the handlebar...??
- does the clutch disengage the engine...??
- have you tried to rock the scoot forward / backwards while using gear selector and see if you can get her into a lower gear...??

call me
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Re: Transmission problem...I think

Postby Tuna Cowboy » Sun Jul 15, 2012 2:48 pm

clutch cable might need to be tightened (having stretched). worst case scenario, the popping out of gear could be a cruciform but hopefully just cables.
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Re: Transmission problem...I think

Postby Dswan » Sun Jul 15, 2012 3:44 pm

ok to start answering the questions - the scooter is just off of Hayden bridge in Springfield, currently in my dads garage. I live campus-ish area but the bike broke down at the round-a-bout by riverbed hospital- so it was an easy push to my Dad's.

Ive defiantly tried to rock in back and forth into gear. I got it to start by running down the drive way and dropping the clutch. It sput-ed a bit until it got speed and ran fine. It seems like there is some play in the shift. Im pretty sure the clutch does disengage the engine.
im pretty sure there has been no new cabels put on. Im trying to get the records from the previous owner, for all the work P-town did on it.

I really appreciate the help and am excited to learn to work on the bike. I am supposed to get a break down manual for it from the previous owner. But it seem like you guys are freaking pros!!! thanks again.

ill send those pm's in just a few.
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Re: Transmission problem...I think

Postby spiderwebb » Sun Jul 15, 2012 6:06 pm

I stopped over just now and found the following:
- shifting cables have slipped @ the pinch bolts (@ selector arm)
- carb was way loose on manifold
- carb top part (slide arm and lid) were so loose there was a gap of about a inch
- no rear brake due to glazzing I think
- headset fork bearing locking ring needs to be tightened down a good bit

I fixed up the cables and carb... went for a test ride up the street.
- the engine would jump out of gear into false neutrals which I bet is due to a worn shifting cross since the cables were set way better than before I got there.

To do by owner before we give her a tuneup:
- clean up the engine with degreaser (Simple Green spray is great and enviro friendly... the crap it removes for your engine is not = :roll: )
- order a some parts = cable pinch bolts (the ones that are closed off on the other side of the bolt), 4 speed primvara shifting cross, clutch rebuild kit (corks and spring), cables in case we need them, 2% mixing cup for your tool roll, rear seat locking post (mushroom shaped) ...
check out the ultimate tool roll list we have in the tec section so you can get a idea of what to have on hand when your stuck somewhere without a cell phone
- allen wrench, 7 and 8 mm open wrenches, 4th hand tool, mini locking vice grips, cables, spare bulbs, spare cable pinch bolts, ..ect = you will feal way better riding a 30 year old scoot know you have some tools in case you need them = 8) 8)

I'll check in with you in a few weeks
be safe and don''t go far from your garage for now and start braking earlier than you need to since you have no front brake and a wobbly front fork

later
good to meet you

reading:
http://www.scooterhelp.com/tips/engine/ ... vespa.html
http://website.lineone.net/~smallframes/index.htm
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Re: Transmission problem...I think

Postby joe » Sun Jul 15, 2012 6:58 pm

for parts, we all do mail order. here's a list of preferred shops to order from. might want to call instead of ordering on line

shops for parts:
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=2457

suggested tool:
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=2026

I suggest you get the basics first (metric wrenches, screw drivers, third hand tool) then add on as desired.
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Re: Transmission problem...I think

Postby Dswan » Sun Jul 15, 2012 8:04 pm

You guys Rock. Again can't thank you enough. Excited to come down Wednesday night.
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Re: Transmission problem...I think

Postby Tuna Cowboy » Mon Jul 16, 2012 7:10 am

you probably are looking at about $100 in parts so far. unfortunately, the cruciform in a smallie is the most expensive style and will be a bulk of that cost but on the bright side, an engine rebuild for a scooter is rarely more than 100-200 if you are just replacing and renewing what you already have. will or i can help you out with a rebuild. you'll also need a full gasket set and a seal set. the cruciform is in the center of the engine and is a common part to need to change but since it is all coming apart you'll need to change a couple more parts to do it right (seals and gaskets).

let us know when you are ready to get your hands dirty. :wink:
Cheers,
Geoff
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Re: Transmission problem...I think

Postby Dswan » Mon Jul 16, 2012 11:04 pm

Found that out. I should be placing an order(friday) for most or all of the parts and a few extra odds and ends that i want to replace(trim,bulbs and what not) I watched a couple of videos and read a walkthrough on scooter help-replacing the cruiform/shift cross (ive seen it under a few other names as well) in the small frame. Scooterhelp seems to be a big help, read and learned alot. Look forward to it all. Sometime once i get it de-greased and a general wipe and wash ill post a few pictures up.

here you go...
Image
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Re: Transmission problem...I think

Postby Tuna Cowboy » Tue Jul 17, 2012 6:00 am

cool, sounds good. just don't get discouraged if you get started and something small like a specialty washer holds you up. a lot of us have spares but there always seems to be that one unique part that you have to wait on that you didn't know was jacked up when you took the motor apart.
Cheers,
Geoff
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Re: Transmission problem...I think

Postby Dswan » Sun Jul 22, 2012 11:07 am

im placing an order with scooter west real soon. here is my list and links, if im missing something if you guys could let me know, i would appreciate it.

the bike is a 1975 vespa primavera

Shift Cross 4 prong for a 4 speed small frame. They have two of them. The link is to the cheaper of the two. It looks like one is made by vespa, one is not. Is it better to always buy vespa brand parts? the vespa brand shift cross is $24 more.
http://www.scooterwest.com/items/?_page ... arket/2546

clutch rebuild kit
there is the same thing with this as above with the shift cross , except the vespa brand seems to come with alot more little washers and clips and so on.

Small Frame Clutch Rebuild Kit
http://www.scooterwest.com/items/?_page ... d-Kit/3017

for cables, they have so many im confused on what im looking for in a quality and complete cable. Anyone have any suggestions. Im also plannning on picking up a few pinch bolts. To replace the shift cross i need to open the case, does any one know what kind of gaskets i should order? Part of my concern on the gasket is im not sure what kind of top end might be on it. The previous owner is *almost* positive there is a kit on it, and he thinks it *might be* the pollini 130 kit. Almost positive seems like a headache and might be doesn't make me feel more confident. Is there a way to look and see before its gets tore apart. Gear oil? is that something that is easily sourced locally? i imagine i will need to refill it with some gear oil.

Specitly tools - looking around on scooterwest they have a hand full of specific tools for some of the parts im ordering. clutch compressors, Small Frame tool for installing shift cross(they look like two blocks with dents in them for the ball bearing to rest in) some other clutch tools. what should i get, all of them, none of them.

Ive got a few general questions as well, i was looking around on the forums for recommended spark plugs and oil. I found a couple of post were people are talking about Brooks carrying those but never mention what they are. Ive always used NGK plugs and castrol synthetic in my dirt dike but the that bike was made this centeruty. Is there a standard for 2t oil for vespas, and then should i be running a hot spark plug or a cooler one?

Thanks for reading my novel length post.
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Re: Transmission problem...I think

Postby Dswan » Sun Jul 22, 2012 11:09 am

oh and if anyone wants to add on to an order. im ording enough that shipping should be free
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Re: Transmission problem...I think

Postby Tuna Cowboy » Sun Jul 22, 2012 4:03 pm

we have all the tools, you can borrow them the first time as we all do, then maybe think about if you'll actually be using them enough to justify buying them. gasket and seal kit too. tab washer for the clutch. probably a rubber kickstart quadrant bumper (the one inside the engine). those are a couple other things that are usually consumed in a rebuild.
Cheers,
Geoff
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Re: Transmission problem...I think

Postby J2 » Sun Jul 22, 2012 10:58 pm

For transmission oil you will need NON detergent 30 weight. To tell if it is a kit you will want to look near the base of the cylinder for a cast mark, if it is a polini it will say "pm" very near to the cylinder base. malossi will say "malossi" on it, and comes with an optional reed valve intake which may or may not be blocked off with a plate. You will need to remove the cylinder shroud, or at least loosen it and lift it to find the mark. The gasket set for the engine is standard. specific gaskets for the cylinder kits are the base gasket.. it has enlarged transfer port openings.there is no head gasket, but malossi heads are o ringed.
as for 2t, if it is stock... run what ya like, but if it is a kit best to use something higher grade. personal preference applies here, but I run motul in my kitted bikes.
I made my own shift cross tool for a smallframe out of the old cross, you just cut off one prong. I am sure goof could show you the technique. I recommend getting the better quality shift cross... you don't want to do that job again in the near future.
spark plugs.. ngk is the ticket. I run a b-7 to b-9 .
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